Michael Richards, the guy who played Kramer of the TV show Seinfeld took a public beating this week because he used the word "nigger." Actually he called someone a "nigger." He also exchanged a few "motherfucker[s]," with the offended and offending party, but the public and the media has ignored that term and focused on the apparently much more offensive "nigger."
But who is really offended by that word, as opposed to pretending to be offended?
The answer to those questions may depend upon your race and social status. If the media is any barometer of indignation, I'd have to guess that white people are the ones most fearful of "nigger." It is, after all, troubled by a history tied to slavery in this ocountry.... So the obvious implication is that to use the word means you support slavery and cruelty to blacks. ... But whose implication is it? Does it come from some misplaced caucasian guilt over a social policy that no one living today had any role in forming or maintaining? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the implication is fostered by those who stand to gain from that guilt..... But maybe the term is not so much about (with apologies to the memory of Dr. King) the color of one's skin as it's about the content of one's character. Comic Chris Rock has a thought-provoking bit on this very subject
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q8LxO4wnCQ
Thirty years ago, the term "fuck" was a word one just didn't use. It was coarse and ugly and would in some cases get your ass thrown in jail if you uttered it in public. Then students and other militant leftists began using the word with such frequency that it entered the American lexicon, and has now lost virtually all of it's shock value and meaning. Fuck is rarely about sex. It's the first word out of our mouths when screw up something in a serious fashion, or when we're exasperated and frustrated and angry. It is an exclamation for everything and yet really means nothing.... And that's the impact "nigger" should have. If you are offended by this or any other racial or ethnic slur, then you need to take responsibility for that umbrage. You need to accept the fact that you are offended because you choose to be offended. And when you choose the not be offended, then you've disarmed those who choose to offend you.
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The N word is not the new f word, in fact both have different connotations when used, as if that is not obvious. What I am getting at is the N word should never be used by blacks or whites or who ever. Earl Hutchinson has articulated the best response I have seen about the Richards rant. I agree with him. The shock value of the N word is lost on this generation. The younger generation is removed from the 60's and the fight that their parents and grandparents went through to get out from under that word. Its like littering or environmental stewardship, if there is no direct economic or physical loss affecting a person, they will not think its their problem. Commercialization of the n word has made it profitable to use it, so it doesn't have the shcok value it once did. Now the current generation coming up has moved on to a new word. Koonin. It means goin out and looking for a girl. or in a girls place lookin for some guys. Either way it should never be used in such a manner. I have heard the younger generation use it to this effect and the thoughts of the older generations is that its wrong to use that word cause it has a degrading definition attached to it much like the n word, but to some even worse.
So in closing, the n word is not the new f word. It only is shocking when a white guy like Richards goes off on a rant like this to balck folks in the audience. Thats the schocking part, not the n word itself.
I read Hutchinson's screed. It was overlong and so convoluted that it came off as a cheap and desperate rationalization. ... I'm with Paul Rodreguez on this issue. That is, I'm against banning the use of words because of a fear some people might find the words hurtfull or misinterpret them entirely. ... fuck 'em. No one in this country has a codified right to not be offended. If someone takes umbrage at my words or ideas, that's too bad. But,they are not obligated to listen to them.
RT
Can we add the following to the list of words that "some people find offensive"?
Fag As in: Chopping a cord of wood will fag you.
or
niggardly?
Or queer: “Have you seen Joe today, he is acting a bit queer.”
“The queer thing about this guy is his penchant for repeating himself.”
All are good words that have been stolen from us by the PC Police, and people who CHOOSE to be offended by them.
By most standards it would be offensive to call an obese woman a “cow”. Yet we are allowed to use the word.
How is it that some words can just be co-opted and banned from further use? What if heteros began to call Homos [Yes, I realize that that word is considered offensive], oh I don't know say "dollar".
As in, "Hey you 'DOLLAR', what are you doing here in the park, or in the mall bathroom?"
First thing you know we would have to find a new name for our currency.
Why is it offensive to call an (American) Indian, an INDIAN?
Why is “Native American” better? What is offensive about INDIAN?
All of us that were born here are Native Americans.
Even the ancestors of Indians immigrated here to North America, albeit a long time ago. Is there a cut-off date? Anyone whose ancestors were here prior to 1500 are Native Americans, everyone else is a “come-here”?
“offensive is as offensive does”
It is not the WORD it is HOW THE WORD IS USED
As a matter of fact: I do have a very close friend who is Cherokee... she says she's an indian, not a 'native american.'.... she's offered no elaboration, but I understand her point in that the tribes were here for a few millenia before America was even a thought in anyone's mind.
As to the term "niggardly," several years ago there was a yop daministration official in the DC government who came under heavy criticism and (I think) lost his job because he used the word in a meeting attended by several persons of color, and they took offense and raised hell..... never mind that the word has no reference to race, color, creed, or national origin, all that mattered to the administration was that those taking offense interpreted the word incorrectly decided to demonstrate their ignorance.... I was mayor, I'd have fired them for being too stupid to hold their administrative positions in the government.
"That is, I'm against banning the use of words because of a fear some people might find the words hurtfull or misinterpret them entirely. ... fuck 'em."
Yeah yeah free speech and all that. When you start talking about slavery and its effects, the n word is one of those effects. It still felt generations later. The word was made to suppress. TO still use it is to want to suppress the induvidual it is used against.
as for niggardly, thats a verb. The n word is a noun. There is a big difference between descirbing somehtings actions and defining a person with one word. When you use it, you bring all the known associations with it.
And I am not fo the banning of words either, its impossible to do. All I am trying to say is racism is a human trait. If we all stopped being racist today, it would be gone tomorrow.
agreed on that, cunt is byfar the worst word to use.
Twat makes "soount" such a bad word, as opposed to any other word describing genitalia - male or female?
Mad Dad
You wrote : "The word[nigger] was made to suppress."
How so? I suspect that the word was first used to describe Black People before the "Peculiar Institution" was begun.
Now on the other hand, slavery in general, as opposed to the "Peculiar Institution", has been around for all of recorded history.
So are you saying that the word "nigger" was "made" by white Europeans (or the Black Africans who sold their brethren to the slave traders) to suppress African Americans brought to North America as slaves?
.... I have to kind of agree with cunt.... it's just such a harsh, unfriendly-sounding word. ... that said, I can't think of anyone who hasn't used it... women use the term, as a matter of course, to describe other women, in the same context men do, but they definately don't want men to utter the word as it relates to them.... but, is it socially banned to the same degree as "nigger?" ... I don't know.... it's a close call.
Mad Dad... niggArdly means "stingy" or "miserly." ... it does not have the same origin as niggEr.
no.... I'm married
That's at least some of my point, Dick. I wonder if there isn't a whole social subculture that capitalizes on this society's history of slavery and racial oppression and the shame felt by good people (some of it misplaced) associated with it.
For instance, we don't see the NAACP come charging to the defence of Jews, Asians, caucasians, or even Muslems who are victimized by hate crimes, or clearly biased governmental or institutional policies... yet the organization claims to combat racism. .... and the same can be said about virtually any of the not-for-profit organizations dedicated to social justice for a particular group. So the fact that they don't speak up for any and all persons or group suffering the effects of prejudice indicates to me they are not interested in equality, so much as they are interested in protecting and advancing the interests of their particular demographic. And isn't that the definition of racism, and prejudice, and bias?
oh.... your were asking about a dog?..... sorry.... I thought you were suggesting something else.
Rat,
I am biting my tongue, period!
Joe... speak your piece. All I ask is that it demonstrates thinking and inquiry, rather than hatred and ignorance.
"How so? I suspect that the word was first used to describe Black People before the "Peculiar Institution" was begun.
Now on the other hand, slavery in general, as opposed to the "Peculiar Institution", has been around for all of recorded history.
So are you saying that the word "nigger" was "made" by white Europeans (or the Black Africans who sold their brethren to the slave traders) to suppress African Americans brought to North America as slaves?"
If you would like to discuss the history of slavery, I would suggest we have a forum for that. I happen to be studing for my masters and my area of concentration is slavery. Not that I am an expert in the subject, just have more knowledge than the next joe. Now to your point about slavery being around forever, that is true, the Roman empire was built on slavery. Just look at the Spartans. The difference being that form of slavery was temporary. You were sold into slavery and if you paid you debt, you could get out of it. It didn't happen all the time like that, but there was that general rule. American slavery was different in the aspect that blacks were easily identified as slaves, a lesser class of human. 2/3 of a human if you will. THey had no hope of leaving the "pecualiar institution". This wasn not like the slavery palntations in the carribeans. See the big difference was slaves in the sugar palntations in the carribean had hope they could be free, thats why there were uprisings. You had to believe you could be free once you broke out. That for the large part did not happen here. It was the plantations farms worst nightmare to think of thousands of black slaves roaming the country side freely.
as for when the word was first used as is "Nigger
This most offensive of words in American speech dates back to the late 16th century, although the modern spelling doesn't appear until two centuries later. The OED2's earliest cite of the modern spelling is from 1786 in Burns's Ordination. (The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, however, claims that this is an editorial error and Burns's original manuscript uses the older niger.) The obsolete spelling niger dates to 1574. It comes from the Latin meaning black. It shares this common root with negro.
The offensiveness of the term has increased over time, especially in the 20th century. Two 16th century quotes that are commonly cited in dictionaries are from scholarly tracts. A 1700 quote by judge Samuel Sewall uses the term in a denunciation of slavery. Gradually, however, polite discourse increasingly used the term negro (which dates to at least 1555) and nigger became relegated to the vulgar tongue, increasing in offensiveness over the centuries.
So for example, when Mark Twain uses the word in Huckleberry Finn, by the standards of his day he is not being especially offensive (although even then it was a term that would not be used in polite society), but is using the term as a marker of class and socio-economic status of the characters who utter it.
In the 20th century of course, it has become extremely offensive. It, along with cunt are just about the only taboo words in American discourse today (it's interesting that the most offensive terms have strong racial or gender discrimination components). About the only acceptable use is in Black English when African-Americans use it to refer to themselves. (There is a similar reclamation of the word queer among homosexuals to rob the term of its offensiveness of the term by using it to refer to themselves.)
It is etymologically unrelated to the word niggard." That comes from wordorgins.com. Americans didn't become racist to control slaves. They were racist when they came here from Briton in the first place. If you look at expolores first encounters with people of color on the Afican continent in the 15 century, one of the words they used to descibe them was black. Oh how that word has stuck. and how.
turd, i never said that niggardly means nigger. niggardly is a verb nigger is a noun. very different. I don't see where you go that from.
There is a ton of inforamtion that will be left out of this discussion becasue I can't write all that I have learned. Its just to much.
"So are you saying that the word "nigger" was "made" by white Europeans (or the Black Africans who sold their brethren to the slave traders) to suppress African Americans brought to North America as slaves?" -yes it was. the word nigger and the definition that is associated with the word was created in this country sometime around 1670, which is a guess at best. this is an area of study that is still basically untouched. so as for the proof of a precise date, we may never know, but it is a peice of the puzzle that is being researched I can assure you of that. The word was used,along with many others to rmind slaves of who their masters were. It was a form of control, a form of suppression. Kind of like how an abusive boyfreind will use violence to keep his girl from leaving.
Mad Dad:
I detect a loy of generalizations in your text and take issue with some.
"American slavery was different in the aspect that blacks were easily identified as slaves, a lesser class of human. 2/3 of a human if you will. THey had no hope of leaving the "pecualiar institution."
So, you're saying that there were no free blacks in the era of slavery?... In fact, there were. Moreover, there were even free, wealthly blacks who owned slaves, isn't that true? Isn't it also true there were free black tradesmen residing in agrarian societies (such as the south) where slave labor was in high demand? Are you sure of your statement?
If your refering to people like ANthony Johnson who lived on the eastern shore of virgina as a reference to free blacks, it is true. I am speaking of unskiled farm labor who were generationally born into slavery. If you happen to read historical wills from say Charleston SC, you will see that many of the free blacks that did live during those times lived in heavliy populated areas. Most becasue of safety in numbers and people who live in densly popualted areas could not do as they pleased with out others watching. I am sorry you see that as a generalization, but like I say, this conversation is way to big to write it all out here. I am sure of my statement and if we were sitting face to face having this conversation these points would be made a lot quicker. American slavery differed from carribean slavery in a few major ways, but that is to much to write here. If you see these as generaliztions its only becasue the whole point has not been made. But back to the point, there were free blacks in this country during slavery, the points we are talking about is about racism, not slavery. Slavery changed in this country somewhere around 1670, for a few reasons, one of which indentured servitude wasn't seen as a viable option anylonger becasue the servants were outliving their contracts. Slaves were owned for life and now that the life expectancy for the average person in this country was closer to 40 than 27, it made sense to start slave families. Which is another discussion altogether. Carribean plantations only had male slaves, no females. Before 1670 there were many free blacks like Anthony Johnson living in the colonies and a few of those chaps managed to secured enought welath to live good, but that was few and far between.
I am sorry to seem like I am generalizing. but what we are covering here was covered over 4 classes over 4 different semesters of undregrad work. There are volumes of volumes covering the subject wall to wall, its not something that can be cut and dry
Lenny Bruce had a routine wherein he stated that everyone should employ the epiphet "Nigger" liberally until the term would essentially come to mean nothing. Lenny in his more lucid moments had a very insightful vein within himself that he could tap into. Of course things didn't turn out the way Lenny envisioned. One could ask, "Why?" Why indeed? Lenny was just a drug-addicted Faggot.
Swampy!!! It's so good to have back to kick around....
As to Lenny Bruce... what you say may be true, but he still exhibited more common sense and decency than you.
Didja have a happy thanksgiving?
Dick... well, I really love those cold turky andwiches the next day.... it's the best part of the meal.
Hope you and Mrs. DIck had a good day.
Ratturd, Hope your thanksgiving was acceptable. I may not be that lofty paragon of virtue that our poor Lenny was, and I accept that. You have to realize that in spite of the best punctuation and writing skills that I could muster, I failed to adequately convey you in my last post that I was being facetious. Lenny would have understood. All aspiring wanna-be comedians will always fall back on that old saw, "You had to be there." I'm no different. How about this one, there's these two "log cabin" republicans that decide to go deer hunting for the weekend, except that neither of them knows the other is gay, so...........
Swampy.... I know this one --- turns out one was named Dick and the other was named Bush...
Ratturd, You're quick, I'll grant you that. Sounds suspiciously similiar to a Whoopi Golberg routine I once heard.
no thanks, Dick.... but two dicks out in the bush all alone, two guys like you should be able to find something to do.....
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